Bloom's Question and Answers
Chapter 16-26
Pose one question (by 11:59pm, Tuesday, 5/30) and answer two of your peers' questions (by 11:59pm, Monday, 6/5) with textual evidence to support your ideas.
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CIR Ch 16-26
The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger Bloom's Question and Answers Chapter 16-26 Pose one question (by 11:59pm, Tuesday, 5/30) and...
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The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger Bloom's Question and Answers Chapter 1-15 Pose one question (by 11:59pm, Wednesday, 5/17) ... -
The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger Bloom's Question and Answers Chapter 16-26 Pose one question (by 11:59pm, Tuesday, 5/30) and...
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Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger Blog Directions: You will use the Bloom's Higher Order Thinking Prompts to pose questions to your ...
In the book there is a quote about a little boy that Holden walked behind for a little while, it says: "He kept on walking next to the curb and singing "If a body catch a body comin through the rye." It made me feel better. It made me feel not so depressed any more” (Salinger 62). What do you think is the relationship between this quote and the title of the novel?
ReplyDeleteThis quote has a very significant relationship to the title of the book. In chapter twenty-two, Holden states, " . . . I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody’s around—nobody big, I mean—except me. And I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff . . . I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all” (Salinger 173). Holden dreams of protecting children from losing their innocence to adulthood. This song that the little boy was singing made Holden feel better because he imagined this place were all the kids are protected. Nothing could harm their innocence and individuality. Holden dreams about the perfect world that he would like to live in which is the relationship between this quote and the title of the book.
DeleteThe relationship between this quote and the title is not fully realized until chapter twenty-two. While talking to his sister Holden realizes what his purpose in life is. Holden says that he has been thinking about " . . . all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around--nobody big, I mean-except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff . . ." (Salinger 93). The title "The Catcher in the Rye" is in reference to this dream. Holden's dream of protecting children from a cliff is symbolic of he protecting his sister from adulthood. The cliff being the transition to adulthood and the thousands of children primarily representing his sister. This goes hand in hand with the primary theme of the novel, innocence.
DeleteThe title "Catcher in the Rye" related directly to Holden's aspirations in life. Holden was abandoned, very early on in life he felt by his brother Allie. His parents followed suit, and even his older brother left to the war, abandoning him. Then women came along and absconded him also, Jane left him like everyone else in his life. He hated this. He hated it to such a point where he became depressed and sucidal. Holden now wants to be the person, directly designated to save people like him. He wants to catch people before they go over the edge, much like he did. "What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff" (Salinger 173).
DeleteWhat would you predict as an outcome if Holden were to be psychoanalyzed? Would he be better equipped to deal with his depression?
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DeleteAt this age and time, being psychoanalyzed would not help Holden much since he is too stubborn to accept his faults. Holden would hear the psychoanalyst out but would not regard the psychoanalyst’s advice with respect. Holden is intuitive, but his intuition often leads him down the wrong path. He is headstrong without a doubt, always believing that he is justified in his doings rather than wondering if he had been the one to act irrationally. For instance, Holden’s exchange with Sally gets out of hand and Holden begins taking his volume up a notch without even noticing. Sally then says, “Don’t shout please” (Salinger 130), which leads Holden to claim that he “ . . . wasn’t even shouting” (Salinger 130). Holden tones his volume down a notch, but once he begins discussing something else that he is passionate about, Sally again has to tell him to quiet down. She says, “Stop screaming at me please” (Salinger 132), which Holden again denies and says “Which was crap, because I wasn’t even screaming at her” (Salinger 132). Holden clearly denies his passive aggressive tone and continues to blame Sally for being irrational. Readers can infer — based off his encounter with Sally — that a strong-willed person like Holden would not be compatible with a psychoanalyst, for he would spend too much time disagreeing with the psychoanalyst instead of trying to discuss the root of his problem. Perhaps, a psychoanalyst would discuss the reasoning behind Holden’s emotional burden and explain how he can cope with it, but how can Holden learn to cope if he spends his time rejecting the advice of therapeutic professionals. To further support this, Holden ends up receiving mental help near the end of the novel and states, “ . . . this one psychoanalyst they have here, keeps asking me if I’m going to apply myself when I go back to school next September. It’s such a stupid question, in my opinion.” Accepting help is the first step to overcoming emotional encumbrance, and given that Holden seems too stubborn to give acceptance a chance, a psychoanalyst will not be able to do him any good.
DeleteWhat would you predict as the outcome of Holden going home?
ReplyDeleteMy prediction is that Holden becomes more mentally stable and less depressed. On page 159 Holden says “I went around the room, very quiet and all, looking at stuff for a while. I felt swell, for a change. I didn’t feel like I was getting pneumonia or anything any more. I just felt good, for a change." I think that being home gives Holden comfort, especially being around Phoebe. He finally catches a glimpse of happiness as soon as he arrives home and maybe the longer he is home, the happier he will be. Also, he can finally get professional help.
DeleteMy prediction of the outcome of Holden going home is that he will regain his happiness a little bit. He has been away all year and he does not see his family very much. In chapter twenty-one, Holden says, "I went around the room, very quiet and all, looking at stuff for a while, I felt swell, for a change. I didn’t even feel like I was getting pneumonia or anything any more. I just felt good for a change” (Salinger 159). This quote leads me to believe that Holden will start to become less depressed and more stable. He seems to lighten up and remembers what it feels like to be home. He also gets a sense of how it feels to not be depressed for a slim second and realize that he may need help. Therefore I predict that Holden will become stable and less depressed.
DeleteIf you could help Holden stop suffering from the feeling of loneliness, how would you help him or any advice would you tell him.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Holden do to cope with his depression and are these behaviors effective?
ReplyDeleteHolden drinks, smokes, and imagines things to deal with the problems in his life. Holden once states that, "I can't sit in a corny place like this cold sober" (Salinger 70). This shows that he is not impressed with his life and thinks that he needs alcohol to deal with what is going on. He is also admits that he smokes a lot. Night of leaving the school, he says that, "I must've smoked around two packs since I left Pencey" (100). He is alone more after leaving Pencey, so he begins to smoke more to entertain and distract himself from what is going on around him. He also often pretends things have happened or are going to happen to make himself feel better. He often talks about running away or violence. He specifically talks about getting shot: "About halfway to the bathroom, I sort of started pretending I had a bullet in my guts . . . I pictured myself coming out of the goddam bathroom, dressed and all, with my automatic in my pocket, and staggering around a little bit" (104). This quote shows his depression getting bad, so he wants to feel stronger by being able to handle the pain and take it out on someone else.
DeleteIn order to cope with his depression, Holden tends to exert his anger in very violent ways. When he was discussing the night that Allie died, he says, "I slept in the garage the night he died, and I broke all the goddam windows with my fist, just for the hell of it" (Salinger 39). This shows that his sadness was taken out in a violent manner. Also, he shows his anger when he repeatedly yells at Sally. He says, "'Stop screaming at me, please,' she said. Which was crap, because I wasn't even screaming at her" (Salinger 132). Lastly, his fight with Stradlater shows that he is a very violent person. These behaviors obviously have not been helping Holden feel better and that is more apparent in this section of the book. Holden is becoming more hostile and violent as this book is progressing.
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DeleteReaders are able to classify Holden's coping methods as negative since his idea of coping is simply being reckless, but Holden does for a fact try coping methods that seem positive in his eyes. Throughout the book, Holden tries talking to Allie in efforts to comfort himself in situations where he has seem to hit rock bottom. Holden views Allie as his guardian angel, reaching to Allie for help whenever he feels emotionally drained or unsafe. For instance, Holden has a conversation with Allie as he walks through the streets while worrying that he would suddenly disappear. Holden says, "I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, 'Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie.' And then when I'd reach the other side of the street without disappearing, I'd thank him" (Salinger 198). Perhaps most readers think that it is unhealthy to talk to someone who is dead, instigating that it simply exposes readers to the fact that Holden simply cannot let go of the past. However, Holden's conversations with Allie have been anything but negative. Given that Holden has been struggling with the acceptance of Allie's death throughout the entire book, his conversations with Allie provide him with the closure that he needs. Once Holden receives enough closure, his emotional burden will lift. Therefore, perhaps his coping method is quite effective considering it guides Holden to the final stage within the five stages of grief: acceptance.
DeleteTo cope with his depression Holden has behaviors but no one would ever say that they are effective in a good way. Holden smokes, drinks, and creates fake scenarios in his mind to deal with all of his own problems. "I can't sit in a corny place like this cold sober." (Salinger 70) He states here that he needs to drink to get through this unpleasant situation.
DeleteWhat is your opinion of Holden's feelings with the Museum of Natural History.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden is feeling sort of depressed by realizing how he used to go to the museum as a child and he won't be able to go back as that age in that class ever again. Holden says, "The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move….Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you” (Salinger 121). Holden is using the museum as a metaphor, he doesn't want his life to change, he doesn't want people to leave like his brother Allie did. And I think he is putting these changes into a different perspective for himself.
DeleteIn my opinion, everything in the museum is kept and stopped the time and it never change in the glass cases. So in my opinion about Holden's feelings is that Holden wants to stop time, stop from growing up into the adulthood and keep the childhood forever. It is like freezing time to keep himself and people he cares from the messy world. According to the passage that Holden said " Certain things they should stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone. I know that's impossible, but it's too bad anyway" (Salinger 122) shows that Holden wishes he can stop someone or something from changing, even himself from losing his innocent and facing the adult world. This can also relate to his brother's death because Holden could have stopped the time when Allie was alive and he could have more time with his brother.
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DeleteI believe that Holden realizes he is not a little kid anymore after he thinks back on his childhood visits to the museum. As Holden goes into detail about the museum he says, "Nobody'd be different. They only thing that would be different would be you. Not that you'd be so much older or anything" (Salinger 121). This quote made me realize that he is actually realizing he has grown up. He realizes that now his baby sister goes on those visits and she has all of those experiences that he did as a child. I feel he likes the idea of how everything stays the same because he is afraid of change. He does not want to things to change drastically as they did when his brother Allie died. That is a lot to take in at such a young age. He is helping myself cope but also helping himself realize that everyone grows up and things do change, but not everything.
DeleteI think that the museum serves as a constant in Holden's life. I think in a way the museum makes Holden feel safe and comfortable. It is a place that doesn’t have the ability to hurt or disappoint him because it cannot change. “The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody'd move ...Nobody'd be different. The only thing that would be different would be you. Not that you'd be so much older or anything. It wouldn't be that exactly. You'd just be different, that's all” (Salinger 121). The way Holden describes the museum expresses the difficulty he has dealing with change. In a perfect world Holden would be living like the museum. Where no one would leave or die and everything would go on, unchanging.
DeleteHow is Holden pretending to be shot related to his depression and past?
ReplyDeleteI think his depression is related to him pretending to be shot because him pretending to be shot is a way of getting attention. It is a form of a cry for help because people with depression sometimes look for the missing attention they aren't getting when their depression is based on neglect. Love and affection is so important while growing up and Holden doesn't get to spend time with his family while he is away at school so he looks for it elsewhere. Also he has been through so much with losing a sibling that he could also be looking for sympathy.
DeleteThe way I see it, Holden is relating the feeling of having the bullet in his gut to losing Allie. In chapter 20 Holden says, “When I was really drunk, I started that stupid business with the bullet in my guts again. I was the only guy at the bar with a bullet in their guts. I kept putting my hand under my jacket, on my stomach and all, to keep the blood from dripping all over the place. I didn't want anybody to know I was even wounded. I was concealing the fact that I was a wounded sonuvabitch” (150). Losing Allie was really hard on Holden just as having a bullet in the gut would be. I think that when he says " I didn't want anybody to know I was even wounded", shows that he wants to keep to himself about how much the loss of Allie is affecting him.
DeleteI think that Holden acting like he got shot relates to his depression because, it represents it for him. Holden tells the reader, "I was the only guy at the bar with a bullet in their guts. I kept putting my hand under my jacket, on my stomach and all, to keep the blood from dripping all over the place. I didn't want anybody to know I was even wounded. I was concealing the fact that I was a wounded sonuvabitch" (Salinger 150). I think that the "bullet" Holden talks about in his gut, is the loss of his brother Allie. When Allie died he was so hurt by it, that the pain of losing his brother was like being shot in the gut for him. This pain or "bullet" caused by Allies death, I feel is the root of Holden's depression. By Holden saying he doesn't want people to see that he is "wounded", it is a symbol for him not wanting people to find out about or his depression or that he is hurting.
DeleteI think that when Holden talks about getting shot it is way for Holden to feel more important, get more attention and to feel different from everyone else. "I was the only guy at the bar with a bullet in their guts. I kept putting my hand under my jacket, on my stomach and all, to keep the blood from dripping all over the place. I didn't want anybody to know I was even wounded. I was concealing the fact that I was a wounded sonuvabitch" (Salinger 150). In this quote Holden is talking about the "bullet" that is inside of him. I think that the bullet or other objects that are hurting him could be his metaphor for the emotional pain he has encountered. Like in "The Fault in Our Stars" Gus has a unlit cigarette in his mouth and he says "It's a metaphor see: You put the killing thing right between you teeth, but you don't give it the power to do it's killing." I think this is the same case that Holden feels like the pain from his brother death is a bullet inside his stomach and as he knows he is the only one who feels that pain.
DeleteWhat is your opinion about Holden and the relationship he has with his sister, Phoebe? Do you believe that their relationship plays a big role in why Holden is the way he is and acts the way that he acts?
ReplyDeleteI believe Holden has a very good relationship with his sister Phoebe. In chapter 16 Holden really starts to show his feelings for his sister when he talks about buying her the "Little Shirley Beans" record. Holden says, “The first record store I went into had a copy of "Little Shirley Beans." They charged me five bucks for it, because it was so hard to get, but I didn't care. Boy, it made me so happy all of a sudden. I could hardly wait to get to the park to see if old Phoebe was around so that I could give it to her” (Salinger 116). This quote shows that he has a strong love for his sister and would do anything to make her happy. Based on how highly Holden talks about his sister, I have come to the conclusion that Phoebe has made a big impact on Holden's life. Even though nobody could replace Allie and how much Holden loved him, Phoebe is that person that Holden has connected with to make up for the loss of Allie. You propose that Phoebe plays a role in the way that Holden acts but I am going to have to disagree because I believe that Holden acts the way he does because of his depression and other disorders.
DeletePhoebe is a really important person for Holden. Phoebe is honest with Holden, not "phony", a characteristic that Holden hates. In conclusion, Holden wants to be a person who is called catcher in the rye. He would stand at the edge of a rye field that ended on a cliff and catch children who were about to run off the cliff accidentally. The lost of Allies also has lots of impacts to Holden. Holden makes good relationship with Phoebe, like how he feels connected to Allie and Holden does not want to lose Phoebe. Her childish and innocence is what kills Holden. Holden feels so happy every time she is around. According to this passage "I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth. I don't know why. It was just that she looked so damn nice, the way she kept going around and around, in her blue coat and all. God, I wish you could've been there" (Salinger 213). Phoebe represents innocence and when Holden watches Phoebe play on the carousel, Holden sees Phoebe showing her innocence and it makes him happy.
DeleteHoldens relationship with phoebe is very important to him because phoebe is there only sibling Holden has around. Phoebe being his little sister and knowing Holden appreciates kids means its a real connection. The quote I didn't care though. I felt so damn happy all of the sudden, the way ol Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, i felt so happy"(213) fully convinced me that he loves her. He also wants to make her happy like when he was gonna leave forever, she convinced him not to. Phoebe was real with Holden, honest, and he didn't consider he a Phony which made him like her more. Holden would do anything for Phoebe to make her happy. Phoebe is Holdens emotional anchor and he can be himself around Phoebe, so her role in the book and very important to Holdens character.
DeleteI believe that Holden has a very strong love for his sister Phoebe. It is almost like an obsession. Holden always talks very highly about her and how intelligent she is for being just a young girl.Since Holden lost his older brother, Allie, he knows what loss feels like. Holden tries to preserve Phoebe's innocence by treating her as though she is just a little girl, which I believe Phoebe is starting to outgrow. Holden shows Phoebe all of his love because she is one of the only people Holden truly cares about. “Old Phoebe didn't even wake up. When the light was on and all, I sort of looked at her for a while. She was laying there asleep, with her face sort of on the side of the pillow. You take adults, they look lousy when they're asleep, but kids don't. Kids look all right” (Salinger 159). I believe that Phoebe and Holden's relationship plays a big part in Holden's character because he tries to be the best he can be for her.
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ReplyDeleteDo you believe that Holden's depression may be connected to him being away from his family at private schools? Explain why or why not.
ReplyDeleteI believe that family is very important to Holden. Throughout the book he talks about his brothers and how he admires them. In the latter half of the book he begins to talk about his sister and how he admires her as well. In chapter twenty Holden says "Anyway, I kept worrying that I was getting pneumonia, with all those hunks of ice in my hair, and that I was going to die. I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet." (Salinger 82). His time at private schools has separated him from his family and I think that at this instance he truly realizes how much they care for him. His depression dose have a family tie most notably his brother Allie but his time away from family that could help him with this feeling of loss after his brothers death did not help him.
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ReplyDeleteWhat would you predict as the outcome of Holden running into his parents while he is secretly home?
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden running into his parents would be horrendous, because they would know that Holden was kicked out of another school. A conversation between Phoebe and Holden states that, "'Who said I got kicked out? Nobody said I--'
Delete'You did. You did,' she said. Then she smacked me again with her fist. If you don't think that hurts, you're crazy. 'Daddy'll kill you'" (165). This shows that their father has most likely reacted badly before, and is going to be even more upset this time. He may be disappointed not only because Holden was kicked out but because it was for failing, whereas his other children are very bright. Holden being kicked out of so many schools affects the family's image, something that is very important to them. His father may also be upset, because Holden has left the school earlier than need, been spending a large amount of money, and has been trying to avoid his family. Word of Holden avoiding his family and running the streets of New York alone may also hurt their reputation and upset his parents.
I believe they encounter with his parents would half two sides a good and a bad. To start with I believe it would have been good because of a family reunion of sorts. It has probable been a couple months since Holden has Seen his parents and I think they would be happy to see him at first. Then when he had to explain why he was there early then the bad would start because he flunked out again. Phoebe Holden'd younger sister explains it well "Daddy's gonna kill you"(Salinger 87). I feel that it's gonna hit the fan at this point because his parents will be mad and disappoint at him. His mother will portable cries and storm off and his father will lay into him. How it will end is more than likely a sever punishment for Holden.
Deletewhat do you think about holdens interaction with children compared to adults? explain the differences or similarities.
ReplyDeleteHolden is almost obsessed with the idea of innocence. When Holden was a little boy, he was forced to grow up too quickly, thus losing his innocence at a very young age. Holden never wants any child to go through what he went through so he thinks of a job that will help him save children from losing it. As Holden describes it, he wants to become "the catcher in the rye". "I thought it was 'If a body catch a body,'" I said. "Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around – nobody big, I mean – except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff – I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be. I know it's crazy” (Salinger 173). Another incident happened when Holden saw a bad word written on the wall where many children would see it, Holden flipped out because he did not want kids losing there innocence so young. I feel like Holden does not care about adults as much because it is too late for them, but he feels as though he can still help the children.
DeleteIn what ways has Holden dealt with his depression? How have these "ways" positively or negatively affected him?
ReplyDeleteHolden has tried various methods to deal with his depression. Holden tried seclusion, " I slept in the garage the night he died" (Salinger 21). Holden also tried violence, ". . . I broke all the goddam windows with my fist. . ." (21). Holden has even resorted to drinking, "I kept sitting there getting drunk" (80). These methods of coping haven't effected him at all because they don't address his problems. The reason why he is depressed hasn't been talked about, therefore it cannot be fixed.
DeleteDo you believe that Holden being home and seeing his sister, Phoebe, again will help with his depression and loneliness?
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden seeing his sister will help with his depression, because she is one of the most important people in his life. Holden says,"I damn near gave my kid sister a buzz, though. I certainly felt like talking to her on the phone. Somebody with sense and all" (Salinger 66). Holden always needs somebody to talk to, which makes him feel less lonely. He had such a strong relationship with Allie, but now since he is gone making him depressed, other relationships can help. A strong relationship with his younger sister and maybe even his parents could help Holden's depression drastically. By making him feel that connection that he had for Allie again.
DeleteI believe that Holden seeing and talking with his sister has most definitely helped with both his depression and his loneliness. While talking to his sister, she asked him to name on thing that he liked. After sometime of thinking he responded by saying '"Anyway, I like it now," I said. "I mean right now. Sitting here with you and just chewing the fat and horsing--"' (Salinger 92). Although Phoebe is not satisfied with this answer, it still shows that these are the moments that Holden cherishes. Moments like theses are what will pull Holden out of his depressed and lonely state. Through talking to his sister Holden gains the ability to release some of the built issues that he hasn't had anyone to talk to about at school. This kind of release is essential to his mental health.
DeleteDo you think that Holden suffers from any other disorders other than depression? If so, what and explain what leads you to believe this.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden may also have questions about his own sexuality as well. This leads me to beleive this because of what occurs when Holden wakes up to Mr. Antolini patting his head. He says that, "When something perverty like that happens, I start sweating like a bastard. That kind of stuff's happened to me about twenty times since I was a kid. I can't stand it" (Salinger 104). Holden says how it makes him very nervous and starts sweating. So because of this he leaves Mr. Antolini’s apartment and makes up an excuse as to why he has to leave so soon. This shows that possibly Holden is worried he might feel something between them or might even enjoy it, which is unacceptable at that time. Holden also states that “That kind of stuff happened to me about twenty times since I was a kid”. Showing that he has felt things like this before and it has happened to him a few times in the past as well. It is unclear as to if Mr. Atolini was actually trying to make a move on Holden, but it does show that this kind of stuff makes Holden very nervous. This could be a sign that Holden doesn't want anyone to know that he secretly feels this way.
DeleteOther than depression, I believe that Holden suffers from narcissism, as narcissism is defined by excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance. This can be evident in The Catcher in the Rye due to the fact that Holden is living as an upper class citizen in the 1950's.Not only are they going to be more careful about their appearance, but they are also going to be careful about who they associate themselves with. This can be seen in chapter 19, when Holden is in the bar chatting away with his old friend, old Luce. In this chapter, Holden says, "These intellectual guys don't like to have an intellectual conversation with you unless they're running the whole thing." (Salinger 191). This quote describes that Holden can have, and can hold very, complex, intelligent conversations, but with the correct people. This could point to the idea of Holden suffering from narcissism due to the fact that he often calls people 'phonies', when he does not even know them in the first place. Maybe Holden believes they are unworthy of his time, or he could possibly believe that they will not be smart enough to understand or comprehend what he has to say and does not want to waste his time.
DeleteWhat seems to be Holden's struggle throughout the book? What do you think he is looking for?
ReplyDeleteHolden definitely suffers from depression throughout the whole book. He suffers from another mental disorder other then depression because he keeps imagining himself being shot in the gut. In chapter 14 Holden says "But I'm crazy. I swear to God I am. About halfway to the bathroom, I sort of started pretending I had a bullet in my guts. Old 'Maurice had plugged me. Now I was on the way to the bathroom to get a good shot of bourbon or something to steady my nerves and help me really go into action"(103-104). This isn't the only the only time that Holden pretended to be shot he also did it another time later on in the book. Holden is looking for attention in the book. His siblings were always better then him in his eyes. He kept flunking out of school to get attention from his parents. Many people that grow up in rich families are deprived from the love and attention that other kids of lower class families may receive. He repeatedly gets in trouble trying to get this attention from his parents but it doesn't seem to be working too well.
DeleteThe struggles I believe Holden faces in the book is himself, and his siblings. In the book, more often than not, Holden bluntly admitted to [us] that he wants to "jump out a window", or, as Holden says this quote, "I didn't answer him. All I did was, I got up and went over and looked out the window. I felt so lonesome, all of a sudden. I almost wished I was dead." (Salinger 62). Even though Holden never does truly state that he hates himself or any other self-loathing or hating expressions, he does make it very clear multiple times in the book that he wishes he was dead, and that can have as much of an effect on someone as saying hateful things to a person, or having mean thoughts. What I believe Holden is looking for in the book is acceptance. Either from Allie, his mother, his father, or himself, to me, he is looking for acceptance. In the book, its evident that Holden does not think highly of himself, as I mentioned up above, he talks about suicide and about how he is depressed in almost every chapter, and he even makes a statement about how his family, his siblings, have always been the smart ones and he was the only dumb one in the family. To me, reading the book and seeing all of what Holden's been saying, I feel like he needs acceptance from his family, and himself.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden calls the people around him "Phonies"?
ReplyDeleteHolden calls people phonies in the book because it is his way of expressing himself. Holden has grown up in a phony world as he says. His dream of a perfect world is beautiful but unrealistic so Holden calling people phonies became the normal. Holden couldn't understand why his big brother left, why his little sister acted like and adult or why his parents were so fake. Depression, emptiness, anger and cynicism became Holdens emotions and attitudes. Holden wanted to live a normal life and not be a complicated adult, he also wants to help all of the naive teens and children in the world. Like when he says he thinks of himself as the catcher in the rye in chapter 21. Holden sees people as phonies because people are hypocritical and adults hide the truth to keep up their appearance. Holden is judgmental toward teens because he sees their flaws and doesn't want them to become a typical adult, and he is judgmental toward adults because he believes they are fake and try to seem perfect. Holden also doesn't want to become an adult so he tries to change other people so he can be who he wants to be.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden believes he can only have an intelligent with certain people (for example Luce)?
ReplyDelete(Marcus Boynton)
ReplyDeleteDo you think Holden's parents are completely oblivious as to how depressed he is? Or do they know, but are still grief stricken about Allie's death and send him away to the private schools so they don't have to deal with him?
Holden's parents are completely oblivious to Holden's depression. Typical upper class families in the fifties were so caught up in managing their "image" that they forget about their children. Mr. and Mrs. Caulfield are no different. Holden gives us a glimpse of the Caulfield's thoughts on appearances in the first chapter of The Catcher in the Rye, ". . . my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece
Deleteif I told anything pretty personal about them" (Salinger 1). Mr. and Mrs. Caulfield clearly care about how they are perceived by others. Allie's death certainly does not help the situation, but Holden's parents would have been oblivious regardless. This is evident through statements Holden has made about his parents being, ". . . occupied and all . . ."(1).
Holden's parents are clearly not very involved in his life but that is not to say they are completely oblivious to his growing depression. It is a possibility that they are aware he has problem but choose to avoid it because it is something they did not understand. In that time period depression wasn't something well understood and was rarely recognized. So, you can imagine how difficult it would be for a parent in that time to accept this.
DeleteHolden's parents are very invested in keeping up their appearances, so it makes sense that they would try to avoid their sons problem (another reason to send him away to private schools). "..my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touch about anything like that, especially my father"(Salinger 1). This provides more evidence that if Holden's parents are aware of his depression it wouldn't "fit" in with the image they are trying to keep up. All the more reason to act like it doesn't exist.
With their sons death and "responsibility" that comes with being part of the upper class community they are unaware of the severity of Holden's problem.
Do you think that Holden blames his parents for his depression because he wasn't able to fully mourn Allies death at home before he was sent away? Also do you think that is why Holden wanted his parents to catch him sneaking out of his house?
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